As well as being one of our most prolific commenters, Lynne sells on eBay as josordoni. Today, she finds inspiration in one of my own favourite marketing gurus.
I have always been pretty laid back about eBay. I have never bothered too much about the various changes, just got on with listing and selling. However, the latest changes are making me paranoid. I watch my Dashboard and my 30 day DSR level with excitement and dread in equal measure – will it pick up or drop today?
All sorts of terrible things flash across my mind. Will my P&P drop below 4.6? Will I lose my discount? Will a couple of difficult buyers leave me negatives or neutrals so that I will lose my Powerseller status – or worse still , be suspended? Will Paypal suddenly take a dislike to something and take all my money and hide it away in a Swiss bank account never to be seen again?
The likelihood is that none of the above will happen. Although that doesn’t make the feeling any less unsettling.
But more importantly, how will this amorphous feeling of doom impact on my treatment of my customers? Can I manage to hold onto my courage sufficiently to believe that I will get back what I give them?
Well, according to Seth Godin, if I can stand back and run my company as if I am acting for my customers instead of for myself, I will knock the spots off my competitors. He wrote:
When a sales rep says, “You know, after hearing your situation, I think you’d be a lot better off with my competitor’s product instead, here’s her number,” it actually creates positive word of mouth and long-term growth. When a brand manager says to the product development people, “I’m not proud of this design, we’re not going to market it, so you better make something else,” it actually creates market share growth. And when a CEO says to Congress, “Our industry relies on chemical X and we’re going to keep using it as long as our competitors do, so please ban it,” she creates a long-term path to stability and growth.
If my buyers can see that I will be honest with them even if that costs me a sale, that will If I act in their best interests, they will trust me, and will behave better than I could ever hope for.
It is something I have always believed in, so I shall take a deep breath, close my eyes and ears to the naysayers, and hope that I can continue to act as if I am Seth’s Statesman.
(And wouldn’t it be nice if eBay would do the same for me?)
38 Responses
The other thing I’d take from what Seth says is that if each of us acts in the best interests of our customers rather than trying to grab what we can, we make the marketplace in which we trade generally a better place. Whether that’s eBay or the internet in general, it makes everything better for all of us.
Well ebay themselves set a very bad example with the visibility issue. When you’ll take money from someone and deliberately give them an inferior service, then you’re acting unethically in my book.
Generally sellers offer a fine service, but some of them need a smack round the head for not knowing ebay policies on issues such as returns on BINS!
When a sales rep says, “You know, after hearing your situation, I think you’d be a lot better off with my competitor’s product instead, here’s her number,†it actually creates positive word of mouth and long-term growth. When a brand manager says to the product development people, “I’m not proud of this design, we’re not going to market it, so you better make something else,†it actually creates market share growth. And when a CEO says to Congress, “Our industry relies on chemical X and we’re going to keep using it as long as our competitors do, so please ban it,†she creates a long-term path to stability and growth.
Ebays actions seem to be the direct opposite to what Seth says, therefore is Ebay on a long term path of destabilisation and decline. Discuss !
Good Luck Soldier (Lynn)
Thanks for takin the hits. You will get that buyer soon enough and you will join the rest of us here: https://forums.ebay.com/db2/forum.jspa?forumID=113&start=40 It is unbelievable,the stories that people are telling. I suggest you take a look through ebay’s OWN feedback board and you will see the feeback that ebay is getting.
And as for paypal, they will probably be going under soon, when the counterfeit ring gets brought out in the open.
Read about that here:
https://blog.auctionbytes.com/cgi-bin/blog/blog.pl?/comments/2008/7/1214969880.html#comments
and here:
https://forum.purseblog.com/ebay-forum/paypal-wants-the-fake-chanel-309773.html
You will be shocked!
I totally agree with everything Lynne says.
It goes right to the core of trading online. We trust a buyer to pay but they trust us with a lot more – they pay before we ship or the see the item, we have their money before they know if we’ve described the item well or not.
Treating buyers well and being honest with them is the cornerstone to success on eBay and if that entails replying to an ASQ and recommending a competitor so be it.
Whilst I have a reasonably large dollop of respect for Lynne and Seth’s eloquence I’d sum it up a little more bluntly with “What goes around comes around” and that counts for the good things we do a hell of a lot more than the not so good 😉
No. 5: An ASQ is?
#6: ASQ – Ask Seller a Question
Almost everyone who asks me a question ends up on my BBL for asking stupid questions (I know thats not good customer service but the questions really are that dumb)
#7 A pound is a pound, I don’t give a flying donkey’s at the end of the day how dumb the question is, I might moan about it on the forum or rush for the JD bottle (if it’s dusk) but I will not refuse money because somebody can’t be bothered to read or has a bag of bolts holding there jaw up.
A good example was a job lot of corner baths I sold….without panels!!! (some may remember lol) anyway even though I had a picture of a bath with “NO PANELS ARE AVAILABLE” plastered over it, and mentioned it 8 times in the listing people still used to ask me if I had any panels…….I sold 34 baths in the end !!
That’s a philosophy I’ve worked with for many years.
I have, on the odd occasion, put my customer in touch with one of my suppliers when they can get a better deal that way.
The customer is happy and my supplier likes me and I get better deals from him because of it.
Ok. I’ve lost out on a sale, but I’ve gained in other ways.
this is the beauty with working with small businesses though, we are much more in touch with our products and supplies as we cover the whole chain.
i often advice people not to buy widget b and adjust setting A, they end up on the phone for qtr hour while i go through it and end up with a better system for no money.
9/10 come back and spend because trust and quality support is available and the word of mouth effect is huge.
and having good relations with competitors is better than bad.
i have couple who i recommend on a regular bases, in return they do the same and the customer is kept in.
you cant do it all but its nice to have a couple of free reps out there for you when they cant too.
#3
Ebays actions seem to be the direct opposite to what Seth says, therefore is Ebay on a long term path of destabilisation and decline. Discuss !
Well, of course, that is an intrinsic problem with large corporations. Unless the management specifically tell their staff that they have permission to take common sense value judgements that might differ from the written “party line” book of rules, an employee of a corporation will tend to be Seth’s Lawyer, their client being the corporation, not the customer.
Tom Peters talked about all of this in his excellent books ages ago ( https://www.tompeters.com/toms_world/toms_books.php) so this is nothing new, but it is sad to see that for all the drums and flag waving and “listening” to their customers (aka us), eBay still don’t really understand employee empowerment.
#7
I don’t think that is necessarily bad customer service (assuming that you answer the questions politely before you BBL them), but I think you are missing a great opportunity to engage with your buyers and improve your sales. People are not all clever, they don’t always engage brain before email. But it is your company and your call.
#8
I’m surprised you need a reason for the JD. And haven’t you got those panels yet??
#10
i have couple who i recommend on a regular bases, in return they do the same and the customer is kept in.
This, of course, a lot of us did when we were allowed to cross-promote with other like-minded sellers.
I never did understand the reasoning behind stopping that facility.
all large corparations are the same.
try making sense with bt, british gas, etc and you swirl around in circles for ages going through departments.
that being said, ebay and paypal are by far and away the worst by a mile.
its hard to comprehend how hard it is to get through to paypal and when through you get no sense what so ever.
my private bank does most of it for free and are contactable 24-7 and answer the phone within five rings straight through to a human.
paypal and ebay really has no excuse for being so bad at customerservice.
this ethos may work in a small village
though I doubt its cost effective on ebay
from a buyers perspective they are dealing with a large faceless multi national ,though often its some poor super honest pillock stuck in a shed on a windblown outpost of the empire!
we have a sort of reverse logic on this,
we make enough profit to offer good customer service, we can afford to refund, and replace lost in the post items and not argue with customers at all ,
because our bottom line allows us too!
it would be an altogether different story if we were struggling ,our crediters were banging on the door, and the bills were not being paid,
so at the end of the day buyers pay for the customer service somewhere along the line
or put simply,
we dont delude ourselves, or consider ourselves paragons of virtue,
profit is the goal,
of course there is the argument that we are profitable because we are honest
which brings us back to lynns post
LOL at North following the circular argument around and around…and I disagree with #14.
Most of my repeat customers call me by my first name, all emails go out signed by me as Lynne, all ASQs are answered by me as Lynne, I have a distinct personality on line as much as off. I don’t believe my buyers DO think they are buying from eBay. I think they, like eBay, just see it as a venue.
#15 My feeling is that one follows the other and is then followed by the other….as certain a progression as the months of the year.
And a big mistake I think people can make is that if you should find that you are falling back on profitability, it is the little customer service things that get cut out to try to cut back on costs.
In my book this is WRONG WRONG WRONG. There must have been something else (usually for me buying strategies that need tweaking) that was causing the drop, it is the CS extras that will be keeping us afloat despite any other errors.
The trust and belief of the customer should be the very last thing to be allowed to fall away.
I have a distinct personality on line too
customers just dont see the real me 😈
product quality and price gets you customer loyalty
customer service just stops the buggers whinging
*applauds #18*
(and isn’t even slightly fooled by North’s “I’m only interested in profit” stance 😀 )
North I love your online personality… it reminds me of Steptoe Sr
LOL
but I think it just might be equally as fictitious…:-D
I have agreed with what Lynne has had to say, however I do believe that a lot of the success of a seller depends greatly on the kind of buyer the seller attracts. We always talk about a sale being a two way thing, when your customers are nice, polite, understanding and reasonable people then it’s a damn site easier to keep at the top of the game.
Attract an unreasonable troll and, well, you all know the rest.
#22
that is also true Larry, but do you then treat all your buyers as though they are going to become unreasonable trolls or do you treat them as though they will be treasured returning happy people?
keith of eastenders is more my going
😆
Thinking back over my career, I have just remembered that I actually got sacked from a Sales Director position because I walked this talk, and refused to accept the (in my view) crooked and antagonistic Chairman’s view of a situation, but preferred to back up the buyer’s position.. 😀
there is something in Larrys theory
different types of buyer are attracted by different types of stock
even their culture and country alters their attitude
stamp buyers are kings of the whinge and moan
Americans and Japanese are wonderful,
Canadians are always moaning on about customs duty and postage,
Germans no problems , French and Italians, are great but their postal service causes serious trouble
I agree in a way.
But personally, I don’t choose to treat any buyer negatively, even if his nationality/buying profile/colour of hair would predict a certain kind of behaviour.
I feel that it is important to start off with the belief that the buyer/seller relationship will be a win/win positive one. I don’t want to start all my dealings with a suspicious mind, looking for the edge in the deal. If later on I find that that this specific buyer was dodgy, well that is life. I’ll deal with it then, rather than anticipating the event, which like most things in life, will actually happen rarely if ever.
my attitude too
apart from stamp buyers who should be boiled in oil ,and boiled and grilled on a sunday
North I am shocked .
Fancy boiling and grilling them on a Sunday…you know there isn’t a post on Sunday anymore.
😀
#22/26
Yes, most definitely. So often I hear this from people selling collectables, niche products, things that you can’t buy everywhere. If you’re selling something to someone for a hobby, they have a totally different view on the whole purchasing experience. Their customers are lovely, they don’t mind waiting a few days and it is rare for them to give bad feedback.
I on the other hand deal with the scum of the world, selling mobile phones plus associated goods. I’ve had a neg this month from a buyer who purchased on Sunday and received his phone on Thursday, because he claimed it was next day delivery, it was 1st Class Recorded that was stated in the auction. I’ve had a neutral because the buyer said it was not the same pink as per the photo, it was a stock manufacturer’s photo and no communication from the buyer.
I check all items before they go out, but regularly get, there was no lead, software, battery cover etc. I get people returning faulty phones that were not the phones I sent out.
If I get a buyer asking a dumb question, then I know they’re going to be too dumb to use the product and are just going to be trouble and cost be money, so I answer the question and plonk them in the BBL. Not one has ever come back and said, I don’t seem to be able to purchase your item.
Anybody that has ever asked a question that is answered in the auction already and gone on to purchase has been trouble.
@30 – I definately don’t want to buy anything off you 😆
#30
I on the other hand deal with the scum of the world,
Now please don’t take this wrong, but it is something I have always wanted to ask.
If you hate your sector so much, and think your customers are so scummy, why do you choose to sell that kind of item to that kind of buyer?
I on the other hand deal with the scum of the world
I really, really hope that was tongue in cheek, RH.
23#
I wouldn’t still be in business if the answers were Yes and No, same as everyone else. 😆
I know what road hog means
I once sold a spare mobile phone we got as a contract upgrade
blimey what an experiance
pleased I dont sell those things for a living,
#32
I never said I hated it, I merely made a distinction that there are very different buyers for different categories.
To your second question, it is very profitable and it is a market that I understand. That doesn’t mean I have to like scummy customers and in the time since I originally posted, I have had two scammers buy items from me and that is NOT made up.
#33
No Sue, it was exaggeration for effect and shouldn’t be taken out of context. I do have plenty of pleasant buyers, but I have a very high proportion of unreasonable people and bottom feeders, that I don’t think I would have if I was selling collectable porcelain figurines.
#36 No, I doubt you not …
But I do find it rather difficult to understand why, if the buyers are so difficult, you don’t find a different, easier sector.