eBay launch new eBay seller protection for Top Rated Sellers

At eBay Open, eBay have announced new actions they are taking with regard to eBay seller protection. For Top Rated Sellers located in the US who offer 30-day returns, eBay there are two new financial protections. The new eBay seller protection will be live in the US on the 1st of October 2019.

“Our sellers have told us that we need to do more to have their backs when they do everything right but something still goes wrong. We’re committed to making significant investments in protecting our sellers and I’m delighted that today we’re announcing these new protections.”
– Wendy Jones, Senior Vice President, Global Operations, eBay

New eBay seller protection for Top Rated Sellers

eBay will issue a seller invoice credit to cover return label cost if a buyer makes a false “item not as described” claim.

  • Report the buyer when you issue the refund through the eBay returns flow
  • You will receive a credit on your invoice for the amount of the return shipping cost up to $6
  • eBay will automatically remove any feedback, defects, and open cases in service metrics

Partial Refunds for damaged returns

eBay will now allow Top Rated Sellers to issue partial refunds for all items that are returned damaged.

  • Recover the cost of the decreased value of the item
  • Give refunds based on the condition of the item — you can deduct up to 50%
  • We’ll remove feedback and defects and eBay will take care of any remaining issues with the buyer

How to qualify

  • Be a Top Rated Seller
  • Offer 30-day returns
  • Reside in the US
  • List your item on ebay.com and you are protected whether you ship the item to a buyer in the US or internationally
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Get the rivet gun out, the ship is sinking!

SMB • 25th July 2019 •

This is great. Thanks ebay!

Rick Clark • 25th July 2019 •

As if you can trust anything eBay says? They always say a lot of "things" but they don't follow through and nothing changes. This is lip service trying to reel in more sellers they can use for money and pandering to their Wall Street masters. The truth doesn't have anything to do with what eBay says.

Dav • 25th July 2019 •

@ Dav (and everyone on this thread who is trashing ebay). if you are so distrustful of ebay why are you working with them? are you not selling on the platform? perhaps you are mistaken ebay for another platform? I have been selling on ebay for 17 years and from reading your post - this is not me experience at all. This thread is typical of the stinking cynical attitude form sellers posting on Tamebay. When ebay take a positive initiative to address the issues that everyone is complaining about that they get nothing but criticisms. You (and many of the posts below) are effectively calling them liars. Negativity, cynicism and mud throwing never built any business. ebay are trying to fix the problems on the platform. Problems with buyers, problems with sellers. ironically these problems are not generated by ebay themselves but they are doing their best to "police" the platform. if this thread is the true outlook/attitude of the typical seller on ebay then ebay certainly have their work cut out form them. if the platform does fail then it won't be for want of trying to get it right and it will be the bad sellers and bad buyers to blame - not ebay themselves. if everyone used the platform honestly there would be need for protection in the first place! I personally am weary of the fraudulent buyers, the misuse of returns, the worn items I receive back, my metrics being crippled by buyers who are defrauding me, the bogus returns labels etc etc. But thats not ebays fault. there are a percentage of buyers and sellers who are NOT honest and ebays approach is far better than any other platform. At least they are making efforts to fix. So to conclude - stop writing trash about your "business partner" and get some listings up and make some money rather than wallowing in self pity because ebay are trying to make our platform a safer, easier and fairer place. Everything about this announcement is positive. If you want to direct your anger anywhere - direct it at the fraudulent buyers! The very buyers. (looking at this seller announcements) that ebay are taking steps to PROTECT YOU FROM!

Alan Paterson • 2nd August 2019 •

@Alan P the point most try to make is ebay try to fix something that they should not be involved in to start with. ebay force the return for not as described even when the buyer has sent everdiance saying there is nothing wrong with the item. My last case involved placemats which the buyer said were great finish, nothing wrong with them other than not as big as expected even thou the size is in the listing. No problem send them back open a return for buyers remorse with buyer paying. Return opened for not as described. The best bit is apparently when they spoke to ebay on how to create the return they were told to open it for not as described. Let sellers make the decision first, if a buyer opens a return saying something is wrong with the item then accept the return if nothing is wrong accept the return but buyer pays postage. If they are not happy with this then let the buyer appeal once the item has been sent back and ebay can refund them the postage. ebay motto to sellers should be why make it simple when we can make it complicated. The more the get involved with things the more there is to go wrong. Which takes time and money to deal with.

Rob • 10th August 2019 •

Absolutely spot on Rob. I have several friends who complain about this, that customers return items that are "Not as described" claiming they're the wrong size when the size is actually shown in the listing. The likes of Alan maintain that ebay is "just a platform". Really? So why are they forcing this on us, the same as they effectively force free shipping (don't offer it and you'll take a hit in listing placement), and likewise pushing 30 day returns which is double the legal requirement. They should be helping to enforce the law if buyers matter to them, not force their own rules on sellers which are over and above what the law requires. If they don't know and have no way of determining the condition of an item they should not be getting involved, as has been mentioned elsewhere. I've been in business since long before ebay even existed so to have them telling me how I should be handling postage, returns and so on is extremely insulting, especially when you consider that (a) they don't have a clue about selling because they're never sold a physical product in their lives, and (b) their idea of customer service is to hire cheap staff in some far off land who's first language isn't English, who don't know how to handle anything any more complicated than what is already posted in the help section on site, and who often struggle to understand you at the best of times (and you them). If they really intend to start protecting sellers they need to stop interfering, stop telling us how we should be running our businesses and start delivering what we're paying them for - a safe and effective platform for buyers and sellers. For the thousands of pounds in fees we pay every year that should be a minimum requirement. There are few other industries that would get away with treating customers (i.e. sellers) as badly as ebay do.

Mark Hetherington • 10th August 2019 •

What a load of crap. If the buyer makes a false claim we should be able to tell them to f off and deduct up to 100% of the item. At the end of the day a false claim is FRAUD so the buyer should get nothing. Most items that are returned in poor condition are not in resellable condition anyway, certainly not for 50% of the price which is often the level for a decent used items. We also lose the outgoing "free" shipping costs which can often be quite high, especially if you sell internationally. I knew this was coming. I'm in the UK so we'll have to wait a little longer but everything I've said would happen has happened so far - free shipping is now often unsustainable; shipping costs have more than doubled since it was introduced whilst item prices are often less than they used to be. Returns have increased since Managed Returns was introduced, and false claims make up almost all of them. WE don't get any of this nonsense on the website which is proof enough for me that eBay have got it wrong. In a survey we did last year MORE THAN 94% of items that were returned, were returned in a less-than-new, and often damaged condition despite buyers/scammers claiming there were in new condition. We even got one £180 item switched, and a completely different broken item was sent back and we still lost the case. Wise up eBay, 30-day returns, which will eventually be compulsory, just means items come back battered and we need proper protection, not just a few token gestures that have the scammers laughing all the way to the bank.

1stMobile • 27th July 2019 •

Interesting. 93% of our eBay returns where the reason is: 'Doesn't work or is defective', are in perfect working order and exactly as described. Just the buyers scamming free return shipping. Again, too little too late for eBay. This needed implimenting with the 'Managed Returns' 3 years ago (or whenever it was). eBay is sinking, the buyers have left. We've had 12 days this month with no eBay sales. Up until late last year, we'd not had a single day without sales on eBay in 7 years. 200 feedback a month to 20. Our sales are almost 70% down on last year, whilst our Amazon sales have rocketed (900% according to the app). Same stock, same service, same price.

DaveP • 31st July 2019 •

Guys, the number of fake INR claims and returns scammers you get heavily depends on what you are selling. I've sold in a number of different categories in the past 20 years. I can recall a few more instances where the scammer has tried and won than Alan can recall for his own businesses, but I don't doubt his experience, nor do I doubt yours. My own experience has been almost entirely hassle free, like 99.99999% or something ridiculous. But I know friends who experience a lot more hassle on ebay than I do, selling different products to whatever I've been doing at the time.

Gav • 2nd August 2019 •

@ Gav Yes that much is very true, it does depend what you're selling but the what is contentious for me is that eBay don't offer any protection. I understand it's difficult when they are inbetween buyer and seller and there's no visible proof either way but the point is if they can't prove a case they shouldn't be taking funds from one party and handing it to another. The way their policies work is driving the problem almost to the point where in my opinion they're borderline aiding and abetting the scammer.

Mark Hetherington • 2nd August 2019 •

There is no seller protection on eBay full stop. We have never, in 20 years on the platform, had eBay step in and protect us in any way shape or form, even when it can be categorically proven that we are being scammed.

Jonah • 29th July 2019 •

@ Jonnah. our experience is exactly the opposite. in my 20 years on ebay I am struggling to remember an occasion where ebay DID NOT protect us. It is as if you are selling on a different platform. There have been a few "quarrels" I have experienced recently where I had to "push" for protection - but when escalated or appealed ebay have always done the right thing. It is a thankless task being the "middleman" and almost impossible to adjudicate. ebay dont see the item, or the return and there are so many buyers abusing the returns system at present it is not possible for ebay to get it correct 100% of the time.

Alan Paterson • 2nd August 2019 •

Alan Paterson, you are either incredibly lucky or you're lying. Only a few weeks ago we had a piece of junk returned replacing the £180 item we sent out and eBay found in the buyer's favour. We fought it for 6 weeks and got nowhere. That's just one example. I could quote dozens more over the years. This is in addition to the countless, and I do mean countless, number of times we have been scammed by buyers buying small items that can't be tracked because of the cost, and the buyers claim non-delivery. In 11 years we've only ever had one non-delivery from items we purchased and that was a scammy seller who didn't actually send anything. I recently reported a buyer who had left 54 - yes FIFTY-FOUR - consecutive negative feedbacks for items not received, all for small, no doubt untracked items. So inefficient are ebay that this is the sort of thing that is allowed to go unchecked for weeks, months, even years. It's not as if it was a one-off but he's one of the worst I've ever seen. WHY is that allowed to happen? Correct, eBay DO NOT see the item or the return so where there's a case of one seller with 10k+, 100% feedback vs a buyer who has a dozen feedback and already has a record of complaints and returns then it's clear to me who should be given the benefit of the doubt, and I'm not just saying that because I'm that seller. Because eBay don't see the item etc. then they should not be taking sides because they are not in a position to make an informed decision. They claim to be impartial so they should be exactly that but they're exactly the opposite. We have a process in place to deal with these things in the UK called the Small Claims Court. That is the buyer's fallback, not the seller funded but eBay branded "Money Back Guarantee".

Mark Hetherington • 2nd August 2019 •

"....countless, number of times we have been scammed by buyers buying small items that can’t be tracked...." Actually I didn't count, I checked. 176 "Item not received" cases in the past 2 years. I don't remember a single one where eBay found in our favour - in fact you can't even fight them because if you do and it goes in the buyers favour (which it will if you have no tracking details as you well know) you get a defect. There's only a small margin of 0.3% for defects of "Cases closed without seller resolution" which effectively means eBay have blocked you from appealing if you don't want your account standing to take a major hit. We made the mistake of appealing everything at one time which resulted in our account ending up "Below Standard", with sales dropping off considerably. They removed the defects eventually but not before sales dropped over 70% as a result. The only exception was the scammer I mentioned above, who I didn't refund but with the help of other sellers we managed to get kicked off eBay.

Mark Hetherington • 2nd August 2019 •

@ Mark Heatherington. try and be nice. I read the first sentence of your reply "you are either incredibly lucky or you’re lying". well I dont feel very lucky recently (but thats another story) so I must be lying? I didnt read any more of your post. you lost ALL credibility. its a shame because you might have had something interesting to say. who knows? not me. when you are doing ebay every day all day like me for 17 years you kinda get a feeling for these things. Its my livelihood.

Alan Paterson • 2nd August 2019 •

@ Mark, ok I can't help but help people......... Your small items that cant be tracked - why not? - will they fit in a large letter? how are you posting them? do you know about 2d barcodes? do you know the posting methods that some 2d barcodes will work and the posting methods that do not? are you aware that ebay will accept a 2d barcode for a case if you comply with their other conditions? for a confirmation of delivery for small items from as little as 86p I do not understand why buyers do not have valid "tracking" to win the cases in their favour. I cant help but think this is either ignorance or obstinacy on the part of the seller. If the latter dont message back. if the first I am happy to explain.

Alan Paterson • 2nd August 2019 •

I'm not interested in gaining credibility ratings on Tamebay or anywhere else, I simply say it as I see it. If it hurts that's unfortunate but I'm not here to play nicey nicey, but if you want me to put it a nice way I find the statement that "in my 20 years on ebay I am struggling to remember an occasion where ebay DID NOT protect us" to be impossible to believe. Not difficult, impossible. I've also been on eBay for 16 years so I know all about how it works. I'm also a member of another private forum of over 200 sellers who will agree with everything I've said. I know because every single one of them have been there. The reality, or truth, or whatever way you want to put it, is that there is NO protection for untracked items and VERY LITTLE protection where the buyer returns an item tracked. As we all know all they need to do is give eBay their tracking number and it's case closed in their favour. Every. Single. Time. Yes, I'm well aware of the various postage options. 86p more than doubles the 41p we pay and makes it unviable to send the item so please don't jump to conclusions.

Mark Hetherington • 2nd August 2019 •

@Alan Paterson I send out a lot of Large Letter items by RM and all have a 2d bar code that is scanned at delivery. Very few problems with delivery by Royal Mail and not been invested with eBay scammers, but the value of my items is an average of £25 But what Mark Hetherington did say: "I recently reported a buyer who had left 54 – yes FIFTY-FOUR – consecutive negative feedbacks for items not received, all for small, no doubt untracked items. So inefficient are ebay that this is the sort of thing that is allowed to go unchecked for weeks, months, even years" If correct, should not be happening.

tyler • 2nd August 2019 •

@ Mark, nothing leaves here without a tracking number. That would be the main reason for our opposite experiences with eBay. I have been protected for almost everything. Thats eBay rules. why could you find that impossible to believe? If an item fits in a letter I will still send it as a large letter to get the 2d tracking. If you are sending your items with no "back up" and therefore no confirmation of delivery then you can't expect "protection". eBay are very clear what they need to get protection. If you decide not to comply with these rules (or don't have the profit margins of an extra 40p or so) then you can hardly grumble. me on the other hand ....... I comply with the rules ...... I get protection. simples. for our items its worth the extra 40p.

alan paterson • 2nd August 2019 •

@ Alan You're missing the point. For one, I'm not particularly referring to the countless "Item not received" issues for untracked missing items, I'm talking about the absence of support when (for example) somebody buys a £180 item, returns a piece of junk and because they have a tracking number that shows "something" has been delivered that's good enough for ebay. I'm talking about the lack of support when a buyer leaves 54 consecutive negative feedbacks, all stating that they did not receive their item. Of the other 20 feedback left he also apparently received 16 faulty items. That is so absurdly bad that there should be systems in place to check how many claims buyers are making and doing something about it. There clearly aren't any, and we've all seen buyers with similar "Feedback left" records, though not so bad as that one, but I've seen buyers who have left over 20 negative feedbacks inside a few months for items not received on many occasions. Those people are laughing all the way to the back. We shouldn't NEED tracking to win a case against people like that, it's so blatantly obvious that they're thieves it beggars belief. But there is no investigation. No checking to see if the buyer does it regularly, which could easily be done in ten seconds in many cases simply by looking at the feedback they have left for others. Nothing. Even if an item has been tracked they refund the buyer first then leave it for you to appeal in many cases, so you're often effectively found guilty before you even know there's been a trail. I'm talking about the lack of support when over 90% of buyers returning items are falsely claiming there's something wrong with it Just to get free return postage. There are three of us on this one thread stating exactly that, how many more are there out there? Again, it's fraud and something should be done. It needs a major overhaul and discussions with law enforcement on how to deal with the issue, not force the seller to rely on a tracking number and hope it all works out.

Mark Hetherington • 3rd August 2019 •

@ mark, im not missing your point. I am trying to address one of your points. if you are jumping between different points as it suits you then you have just come on here to moan. you are making a point about INR and then switching to abuse of returns policy when it suits you. I try and address one point while you switch to another. People like you don't want to listen. Your aim is to win an "argument" while my (often misinterpreted) aim was to try and offer some advice. but I'm not being told "I'm missing the point" while you switch points again. good luck with your business. remember Ebay are just the platform - much of the responsibly is with the seller. my experience is they always try and offer support. maybe you are accidentally calling Amazon?

alan paterson • 4th August 2019 •

@ mark, and you are mistaken. there is an entire team monitoring abuse. Bad buyers ARE removed from the platform. A recent year had the figure at 3.5 million removed from the platform (internationally) so to say "nothing is done" is ridiculous. to remove a buyer on the word of.a seller (lets face it you have already made wrong conclusions) would be a bit draconian.

alan paterson • 4th August 2019 •

Alan, I don't post a lot on here, or anywhere else for that matter, as a rule so no, I haven't come on for a moan. But I have read your posts for a long time and you're clearly the short sighted one who won't listen to anybody. You think because your experience is good then everything in the eBay garden must be rosy and anybody who dares to challenge that is mistaken, or won't listen, or are themselves at fault for everything that doesn't work on eBay. This isn't about "one issue", this is a whole series of issues that are driving the problem. I don't need you to address anything, I've been in business successfully for over 30 years and I'm making a decent living, partly from eBay but that doesn't mean that there are not problems that need to be addressed. There are many issues that are well documented and there are thousands of sellers, including many well established and successful businessmen, who know and accept how bad it can be without feeling the need to defend it all the time. However, the fact remains that Whatever you choose to accept there are considerably more sellers who complain about eBay than praise them, which itself should tell you something. We can't all be "mistaken". Given that you prefer to look at eBay through rose tinted glasses and spend much or your time shouting down and insulting anybody who dares disagree with you, perhaps you're the one who is accidentally calling Amazon (they're nearly as bad but you can usually get through to the right people eventually) . Regardless, your blanket defence of the platform against anybody who speaks up against them isn't going to make the problems go away. As for having an entire team monitoring abuse then it clearly isn't enough. It's still a cesspit of scammers and when buyers can get away with leaving over 50 negative feedbacks without any repercussions then it's clearly not working.

Mark Hetherington • 4th August 2019 •

@ Mark. I don't want to get into. tit for tat. bottom line is - ebay introduce an improvement - in fact several improvements. and what happens? sellers moan about it (including you). I don't think I am the one with the skewed vision. There is no doubt that many of the problems that you describe are real problems on the platform. Ebay are doing their best to address these issues. personally I think we should be looking more towards the fraudulent buyers who misuse and abuse the platform. ebay ARE doing all they can to Police but it is a difficult / impossible task with the buyer saying one thing and the seller claiming another. I do not understand why sellers come on here and "trash" what is MEANT to be their "business partner". It is obvious with all these initiatives that ebay are at least trying to address the problems and I don't think we should always be looking at ebay to be the ones to sort it out anyway. For the first time I am looking at small claims court action against a buyer.

alan paterson • 6th August 2019 •

I have long been critical of ebay's indifference to seller issues but I think this is a helpful step in the right direction. Let's see how it goes.

Amy • 30th July 2019 •

Dave P, that almost exactly reflects our experience word for word. We knew returns would go up once Managed Returns were brought in and they have increased x4, despite falling sales. Our figure for items returned in perfect working order but claimed to be defective is also 94%, so that's three of us here that experience the same issue. So what we have had in recent years is: - Managed Returns increasing the number of returns - Forced payment of return costs through buyers fraudulently claiming faults - The ability to deduct outgoing postage costs for any reason - Effectively forced to offer free shipping or take a hit in listing position - £10 fee hike for ebay shops which is exchanged for overpriced packaging we don't want - Promoted listings adding, in our main category, another 8% selling fee on top of the FVF (which means you're losing yet more sales to those who pay it unless you join in) - 90 day returns on the horizon. So we're now expected to pay listing and FVF fees, promoted listing fees, outgoing postage and packing, return postage, accept returns for 30+ days and little redress when the stuff comes back battered. On top of all our usual operating costs and taxes. And eBay wonder why sellers are leaving in droves?

Mark Hetherington • 2nd August 2019 •

@ Alan Paterson: One of THE most stupid comments about any sort of issue like this is words to the effect of "if you don't like it why don't you get out?". Why? Because it should be obvious that, in this case, many people are trusting eBay for at least part of their income and you can't just walk away. It' like saying to somebody who doesn't like their job "Why don't you just do a few hours a week then?". It doesn't work that way, it's not that simple, and you don't realise how bad the problems are until you're busy and established and it dawns on you that' you're dealing with these issues every day. Don't you understand that if many sellers are continuously posting about their problems and experienced on ebay then there must be some substance to those complaints? Are are we supposed to shut up and put up with it, bury our heads in the sand and pretend it doesn't matter, because that's what you appear to do, or at least expect everybody else to do. You don't accept there are serious problems because you don't see them so you want everybody else to pretend they don't exist. You get very upset whenever anybody is dissing your precious ebay. Burying your head in the sand when there are problems never built any business, dealing with them effectively on the other hand does make a difference. And therein lies the crux of the problem. Ebay don't deal with these issues effectively. Take this issue for example. Ebay's "positive initiative" is to push everybody into accepting 30 day returns to give them more protection. Sorry but that is absurd. That protection should be what sellers should be able to expect full stop, not "if you offer 30 day returns". If ebay are trying to fix these problems then the reality is they're doing a shocking job of it. It wouldn't for example, be a major stretch to employ software that automatically highlights buyers who are making repeated claims or leaving a string of negative feedback. If people are getting away with dozens of claims with no repercussions then ebay are failing. In my opinion they're taking a considerable sum of money from their customers, the sellers, and those sellers have a fundamental right to be protected. Instead we get this "ebay Money Back Guarantee which is really a seller money back guarantee as it's usually the seller who is funding it whether they like it or not. If the platform fails it will absolutely be ebay's fault, for not addressing or taking seriously enough these issues that have plagued the platform for over two decades. "if everyone used the platform honestly there would be need for protection in the first place!" - Absolutely. But that's not the real world is it, and ebay need to understand and accept that rather than just sucking up the profits and leaving sellers to fend for themselves when it comes to handing back money to scammy buyers. It's absolutely ebay's fault, because if they had clamped down on these things it would not be as bad as it is now. Do you think that if this was eBay selling their own goods that they would allow themselves to be scammed every second? Do you honestly believe that they would simply hand over money to those who send back an empty box? This is ebay's platform and it is, or should be, ebay's problem. You cannot simply keep defending them because they can't, or won't deal with the problem effectively. If anything they're actually DRIVING the problem and making it worse, because if they didn't make it so easy for the scammers there would be considerably less of them. The day ebay properly protect us I'll be the first to praise them for it, but sadly I don't think it will happen in my lifetime.

1stMobile • 4th August 2019 •

alan paterson says "Ebay are just the platform". Copied right out of every eBay cheerleader's handbook and exactly what eBay itself tells everyone who has issues with them. Total cop-out BS of which eBay are experts. There's those like alan all over the net wherever there's negative comments about eBay. All the same. They don't even acknowledge anyone else's issues and always claim they've never seen or experienced any of it. What's especially annoying about alan is the holier-than-thou attitude. Every thread he participates in turns into a sh*tshow.

Dav • 4th August 2019 •

Agreed, Dav. It's like saying it's OK to sell drugs from your house as long as it's somebody else that's doing it. They all miss the point that by providing the venue you have to have some sort of responsibility of what goes on in it. Personally I don't get why that is so difficult to understand. Nobody is saying it is all bad but there are severe issues that need dealing with.

Mark Hetherington • 4th August 2019 •

@ Dav, poppycock! if they don't acknowledge these issues (the backbone of your argument above) why would the be introducing yet more initiatives to protect the sellers - the very thread you are posting on. I used to advertise in newspapers many years ago. I would never blame the newspaper if the transaction went wrong. I do not know what else ebay can do to protect sellers. They do nothing - they get trashed on here. They introduce initiatives - they still get trashed. and incidentally - things are not "tickets boo" for me. I just know when ebay are to blame and when they are not. I am analytical and objective. your other comments about ebay cheerleaders - well you have obviously not read my previous post or maybe lack the ability to form an objective view. if I am trying to WORK with ebay to build my business I would certainly say that's its better to work with them and "go" with their initiates rather than throw mud and trash them. what do you think will have the better effect / impact on your business? certainly not the latter surely. I adopt an attitude and approach that is best for my business. If you don't like something and can't change it - change the way you think about it. I had a fraudulent buyer recently who purchased no less than 73 items. all I expect ebay to do is protect me from the defects. was it bays fault? no. I have reported the buyer to Trust and Safety which is our responsibility. I have seen buyers removed in the past. ebay ARE proactive with this. I am sorting the rest out with small claims court action. don't think for a minute that I don't have the same problems as described by you moaners. in fact, I am in a category that probebly gets more than you guys put together. I just don't expect ebay to sort everything - although if and when I turn to them they are almost always supportive. its nice to see some positive comments on here from sellers who are willing to give ebay a chance with these new initiatives.

alan paterson • 6th August 2019 •

@Dav The Everything ebay is bad babble Is just as ridiculous

Jim • 4th August 2019 •

if we you dont like the food or service in restaurant ,we dont try to change the chef or the menu ,we eat elsewhere

jim • 5th August 2019 •

Very sensible advice Jim but completely irrelevant in this case. If you have built up a business on ebay you can't simply shut it down and move to another platform. The only other viable platform that might produce the results you're looking for is amazon, and most business sellers already operate on there too. What those pro-ebay people seem to miss is that just because something works doesn't mean it doesn't have problems. On ebay those problems are serious; they're driving fraud. We have discussed dropping ebay and using the money we save on fees on advertising. On our website we don't spend a single penny on advertising. We sell exactly the same goods, have exactly the same parameters (free shipping, 30 day returns etc). Yet we don't get people returning goods all the time or asking for return postage, or claiming there's something wrong with the item when there isn't. We don't get people claiming they haven't received their items every few days. We get more of these in a month on eBay than we get in an entire year on the website. That, and that alone tells you ebay have a big problem. The thing I don't get about you pro-ebay people is that while everything might be tickedy-boo for you, when thousands of sellers are leaving ebay and the site's bad reputation rolls on unchecked with the issues it has, it's affecting ALL of you. If they go down you go down with them, yet you all seem to have the same problem - you bury your heads in the sand and pretend these issues don't exist or don't affect you.

1stmobile • 5th August 2019 •

@ 1st mobile. you are a VERY funny guy. I genuinely laughed at your post - and I don't laugh often. You have it completely back to front. you lecture us "pro-ebay" people about effecting the platform adversely and ignoring the problems. it is the anti-bay sellers like you that adversely effect the platform lol. it is sellers with your stinking negative attitude (ahem) who are anti-ebay that undermine the business - both yours, mine and ebays. your post was worth while though - I haven't laughed like that since the last Jim Carey movie. my sides hurt. if a buyer abuses a return - that's not bays fault. you get that anywhere. its called selling online. and again - if I can remind you of the topic of this thread - ebay are taking even more measures to help.

alan paterson • 6th August 2019 •

@1st mobile the very fact you have built up a business on ebay proves that the tools buyers and opportunity are provided by ebay, in the first place rather than blame ebay ,try looking in the mirror for answers and solutions ,

jim • 6th August 2019 •

we know issues and problems exist with ebay they are far from perfect we suffer the same as anyone but it works for us we make money,thats why we are in business other peoples business problems our not our concern

jim • 6th August 2019 •

@ Alan, you were entertained but it's no laughing matter pal. If you expect anybody to have a positive attitude about being ripped off every five minutes you have serious problems. "if a buyer abuses a return – that’s not bays fault. you get that anywhere. its called selling online." - did you miss the part where we said we don;t get those problems on the website or don't you have an answer for that? #ebay are taking measures to help" - you mean push sellers to accept 30 day returns then they'll do something about the problem? That's called marketing pal, trying to make themselves look better. It should be offered to ALL sellers, not just those who are willing to lose even more money by offering 30 day returns. And even this has taken over 2 decades. People who have left 50+ negative feedbacks for items not received should It's not our job to police their site, simply because they won't pay their own staff to do it. There are no excuses. It's not our job to police their website. Simply because we're making a living on ebay does NOT mean we should just put up and shut up. We pay thousands of pounds a year for the privilege of selling on ebay and I believe we have a right to some serious protection. All this BS about it's not ebay's fault, of course it's ebay's fault when they let scammers place order after order after order and do nothing. Or they take the side of a buyer with one feedback against a seller who has 10k+ feedback. There are times where they have found in the buyer's favour which would be laughed out of court. Just today we appealed a neutral feedback and defect for an item not received after Paypal had withheld the funds and obviously told us not to send the item. Ebay's decision? There was no tracking information to say the item had been delivered, aCOMPLETELY ignoring the fact that it hadn't been sent, and why. this is the level if "customer service" we have to put up with. If we offered a similar level to our customers ebay would be chastising us about it. It's pathetic.

1stmobile • 6th August 2019 •

@ 1st mobile. I read your first paragraph about you being "ripped off every 5 mins". if that's the case perhaps you should consider leaving the platform. and it was not the matter that I found funny - it was your interpretation. and I'm not your pal buddy.

alan paterson • 6th August 2019 •

its not that I am ignorant to these problems - its the ignorant sellers blaming ebay for it. If a buyer rips you off its not ebays fault. as you can see form the article by Chris - ebay are trying to help with these issues.

alan paterson • 6th August 2019 •

@alan paterson You just proved once again you don't even bother to acknowledge anything which are known facts. "If a buyer rips you off its not ebays fault." IT IS EBAY'S FAULT WHEN THEY SUPPORT THE SCAMMING BUYERS AND SCREW OVER THE SELLERS! They've been doing that more than 10 years! Since Donahoe. You just do not get it do you? They rule for the buyer almost EVERY TIME, there is no seller protection no matter what eBay says. You always claim you never had a problem. If that's so you're one in a million. You must be so special and worthy of praise. Your narrative of nothing is eBay's fault and the seller is doing something wrong is the biggest load of crap ever. Get over yourself. But that seems not possible...

Dav • 6th August 2019 •

@ Dav - you say that "they rule for the buyer every time" - well, you must be either operating ebay from another dimension or you are a bit of a moron. I tend to think the latter as there isnt any evidence of eBay operating across different dimensions (although i hear Amazon are working on it). if you comply with ebay rules, have tracking number etc i have never seen ebay NOT rule in the sellers favour. (at least for INR anyway). You seem to be praising me and trying to insult me in the same paragraph. very confusing. I dont think you know your arse from your elbow ....... or you are trying to be sarcastic which i dont do. Best to ignore you i think. you have lost ALL credibility. But here is a question for you. If readers on here are trying to build a SUCCESSFUL ebay business who is it best to listen to? now think very hard before answering this. think about it Dav. maybe read some of my previous posts which will give you a clue ....... who should sellers listen to.......... A. People like you who trash ebay and are negative about their business partner B. People like me who support ebay and work with them. i was going to put a third option but i thought that might confuse you. Answer A? or Answer B? it seems obvious to me but some folk seem to stupid on here i will give a clue......... but not till my next post. think about it.

alan paterson • 11th August 2019 •

@ Alan You're just about ignorant to everything related to this issue. You talk about other people's attitude but you're so narrow minded and wrapped up in your own cosy ebay blanket it's unreal. Regardless of how much you love ebay you are completely dismissive of all the comments made by other sellers, not just on this thread but all the time. Yet you don't have the basic common sense to understand that if so many people are complaining there must be a real problem. Yet because you don't get these problems you think everybody else is lying. You said to me earlier, "try to be nice" yet here you are making derogatory and insulting comments to anyone you feel warrants it. You're so dumb you can't see that it says everything about you: Ignorant, dismissive and narrow minded. The fact remains that there are serious issues faced by many professional longstanding sellers who deserve better. We also pay thousands of pounds a year in ebay fees alone, and for that we expect a safe trading environment, support when we need it. I mean PROPER support, not somebody from some poor country reading from a script and bouncing back pointless template answers that cost us more time and therefore money, lead to more frustration and a poor customer experience, bearing in mind that WE are eBay's customers. The real morons are the people running ebay, a company who have never sold a single item telling sellers how to sell, accompany totally unable to control scammers, a company who clearly do not listen to what sellers are saying and deal with those issues. They're clueless, which is why they're struggling. Today I lost a £200 sale from a buyer who wanted to know if he could collect today. I only briefly read the message then found ebay had removed it because they wrongly assumed the buyer was trying to do an off-ebay deal. A couple of years ago we spent nearly two months updating all our listings to comply with the Active Content rules and at the same time we added a customer contact number. Then a short time later they decided sellers couldn't add a phone number to their listings because it enabled sellers to sell over the phone and sell off ebay. This is despite the fact that according to eBay themselves the vast majority of ebay sellers don't have a website. So we had to spend several more weeks updating the listings again to remove the phone number from the description, a move that costs us on average 6-8 high value sales each month. This is a company that has done nothing for sellers in the past few years except increase fees, including forcing us to pay and extra £10 shop fee for packaging that we don't want and is no use to us (apart from the fact that I have absolutely no intention whatsoever in allowing ebay to advertise their business on my packaging free of charge); pushing promoted listings on us on top of the final value fees and listing fees, and of course there are Paypal fees to add to that. Then they force us to offer "free" shipping or take a hit in the listing rankings, likewise a similar thing with 30 day returns which will be 90 day returns before too long if ebay get their way; free returns if we want support for a problem; impossible to maintain late delivery metrics since their allowable levels are lower than the UK's main carriers own figures - this again costs businesses more in the form of lost TRS discounts for those unlucky enough to go over the 3% late delivery rate. Then they're pushing their policies on us which means those of us who do have websites need to operate two different sets of rules (because there's no way I'm using eBay's crap policies on my website), all this from a company who clearly don't have a clue how the retail market works and the challenges faced by sellers, and YOU don't think there's a problem? People are negative about ebay for all the above reasons and more. Business "partner"? When did this partner of ours ever allow us to make a decision about our business? As I said we're FORCED to offer free delivery if we don't want to be penalised with a hit in listing rankings, FORCED to offer free returns if we want more support which should be our right as part of the service we pay for, and FORCED to hand back money and pay to have items returned from scammers who use a false excuse for returning the item. And that's your definition of a business partner? As you said some people are stupid on here, and it's certainly not us. Like I said, we can't all be wrong and if you don't get that there's only one moron here. I'm done anyway, I'm all for an intelligent constructive debate but there's no chance of that with you.

Mark Hetherington • 11th August 2019 •

@ Alan; and I'm not your buddy. In fat you don't appear to have any. You're so far removed from the issue it beggars belief. "its not that I am ignorant to these problems – its the ignorant sellers blaming ebay for it. If a buyer rips you off its not ebays fault." That sentence alone shows how far away you are from reality. If the site is attracting scammers and ebay do very little about it then of course it's their fault. If a buyer sends back an empty box and ebay refund them THEN WHO THE HELL'S FAULT IS THAT IF NOT EBAYS? Jesus wept, it's not rocket science, even somebody with their head in the sand as deep as you have should be able to fathom that much. Dav is absolutely spot on, you don't acknowledge the facts, you couldn't answer why we don't get issues on the website like we get on eBay. Similar products and prices, same terms, same payment processors, the only difference between the two is ebay are not involved. Go figure. Dav, Mark, Jonah, DaveP and ourselves, that's 5 businesses on this one thread alone that have similar views about eBay, not based on opinion but based on the REALITY of what is actually happening out there. If it doesn't happen to you then you're out of place here, you're not qualified to comment on something you don't experience for yourself but WE DO. There are thousands of similar posts across the internet, across the world. Are you saying everybody in the world is wrong? Do you think we would all be complaining if something wasn't badly wrong? Or do you think it might be you that's wrong, because it's clearly obvious to the rest of us. Along with jim I think you need to look in the mirror. Yes we make money from the platform but as I said we pay a considerable fee for that and we do most of the work. As you said yourself, ebay are just a platform. But they're a platform that has responsibilities to it's customers. They would not find it acceptable if we treated our customers like they treat theirs. I'm done anyway, your so wrapped up in your ebay bubble that there's clearly no chance of anybody getting any sense out of you, but if nothing else you need to understand that if there were no problems there would be no complaints. And everybody can't be wrong.

1stmobile • 7th August 2019 •

@ 1st mobile. oh dear, you have no sense of humour. I was calling you "buddy" in response to you addressing me as "pal". (Terrance and Philip? ........ no?.........oh dear) oh dear, I think you have anger issues AND sense of humour failure. Please try keep up with the pop culture references. any friends out there?

Alan Paterson • 11th August 2019 •

@ 1stmobile to quote you "that’s 5 businesses on this one thread alone that have similar views about eBay" that's because the "pro-ebayers" are working on their ebay businesses and don't have the time to engage with the sort of negativity you spout. I come on here for a bit of entertainment. I don't normally engage but I can assure you Alan has quite a following representing the silent majority building their ebay businesses. Its amusing how you guys attack him when his aim is to come on here and help! lol @ Alan - you are wasting your time. Your South Park reference ROFL. "Im not your buddy, friend" Hilarious.

Charles • 11th August 2019 •

Oh, here we go, another smartarse who has the answers to nothing. First of all to suggest we do not spend the time on our businesses is complete bollocks. In fact if that's the reason for the problems Alan's business must me awful given the amount of time he spends on here. I'm glad you find it entertaining and amusing, but people are coming on here to discuss serious issues that not only is Alan incapable of helping anybody with, it's clear and obvious from what I've seen on this thread that he's completely incapable of even addressing the concerns that people have because he won't even acceot that they exist. You cannot simply dismiss something people - customers - don't like by saying words to the effect of "if you don't like it leave". It doesn't work like that, but then any pro-businessman would know that. There's a reason sellers are leaving ebay in droves. Get over it. That we sell almost as much on our website with ZERO advertising and considerably less fees in a year than we pay eBay in a typical month. If that fact alone doesn't tell you there are big problems nothing will. But then I love it when people end their posts with "lol", for me it gives a good idea or their mentality.

Mark Hetherington • 12th August 2019 •

@ mark. Have you considered that your posts are so depressing and bleak that a bit of humour may be required? You might be having a hard time but let’s not spoil it for the rest of us. One of the people who might be able to help you are giving a hard time . I feel bad that your business is not doing well but Alan is correct. That’s bad buyers and not Ebay. Off course the problem is serious but that goes with the territory and eBay are trying to do something about it. I saw in a previous post that you refused to pay an extra 40p to fix your problem about tracking. It looks to me that Alan is giving viable suggestions and you are just on here to moan and throw mud.

Katieanderson@mail.com • 12th August 2019 •

I'm not having a hard time at all, I have a very successful business and I have previously sold three businesses for a very decent sum. After well over 30 years in business I can assure you I know what I'm doing. But like Alan you're completely missing the point. We're not here to provide entertainment, we're discussing very serious issues that the likes of yourselves won't even admit exist. Until you do there's zero chance of you helping anybody. You don't solve a problem by ignoring it and hoping it will go away. I don't think anybody with more than one brain cell is disputing that the scammers are the problem. But you don't leave your doors unlocked and hope you don't get burgled, then say well it's not my fault, it's the burglars who are the problem. You do something about it. Ebay have had this problem for over 2 decades and only now are they introducing a token gesture that will help a small number of sellers but only after forcing them to accept 30 days returns. If you're in the electronics section like do you know what happens to goods that come back after 30 days? They're battered. NO seller should be forced to accept terms like this before ebay will deal with the problem. And if the buyer appeals ebay will no doubt repay them, probably out of their own pocket (but we're paying for that in fees) so that just leaves the scammers laughing all the way to the bank . It drives the problem, not solves it. No, you didn't see in a previous post that I refused to pay an extra 40p to fix your problem about tracking. I said it wasn't viable. There's a difference. You cannot pay more than double the amount for postage on an item that costs £1.29. It's worth selling the item overall but just like Alan, and as I said at the time, it's missing the point, which is that eBay policy to simply hand over our cash to anybody who has a problem, proven or not, is only helping the scammers. Of course we take our own steps to protect our business where we can but I'll say it again, that's not the point. The point is ebay are driving the problem We get none of this on the website and we sell more on the website than we do on ebay. You don't need to be a genius to work out that ebay have a problem.

Mark Hetherington • 12th August 2019 •

@ Mark, if you are NOT having a hard time stop complaining. Can you come up with a better way of monitoring the platform? the problem with sellers - is they always see things from their myopic point of view. ebay on the other hand have to see it from multiple perspectives. The seller (who they do try and protect) the buyer (who they need to protect by law) their share holders (without which there would be no platform) and finally their reputation as a safe place to purchase. you sound like a nice chap Mark. A very angry chap but a nice one who has a "bee in their bonnet". at least ebay are being proactive. I am glad to hear your business is not "having a hard time". that's the impression you gave. but you - as with many sellers - are failing to see the big picture and understand that ebay have reposnsibilities other than you - the seller. have they got the balance yet? Mayne no but they are trying to address the problems with buyers. if you are failing to meet the targets set out by ebay reading delivery times - simply add a day to bring it online with ebay metrics. from experience this does not have a significant impact on sales - in fact your sales could increase if it makes the difference between TRS or not. you sound like a sensible chap but common sense seems to be lacking somewhere. you say I am living in a "Utopia". well better that than post - apocalyptic disaster. You are not going to change these rules - so change the way you think about them. You too can live in Utopia lol. Better that than your world. oh, and you say "I am blissfully unaware of anything that matters". this is not true. you do not know me. My results speak for themselves and I have not only built my own ebay business in one of the most difficult categories but I have help many others too. I just know that sellers must concentrate on the doughnut - you are staring at the hole. I love doughnuts.

alan paterson • 12th August 2019 •

Paterson speaks the truth. Listen you should. To show hate to eBay is the path to the dark side. Forever will it consume you. Go out of business you will!

Ross (Yoda) • 12th August 2019 •

Think a big part of the problem is ebay are to involved in the return process. All to often I get returns opened claiming something is wrong with them when in fact they don't want to pay return postage knowing ebay won't make them pay return postage. I then have to waste time phoning ebay to appeal this, then get the case opened and closed and told to wait 24 hours to call back to appeal the postage. Then get told ebay will refund me the postage as a goodwill gesture. Most returns I have there is a problem, ebay giving the wrong postage label, they gave a RM medium parcel for a 1.8m blind the other week when they used to give Parcelforce labels out. There are no terms and conditions for returns. It is dealt with on a case by case basis. If your item is low value, they will give you good will gesture if lost, if expensive get told its part of business and you should work the costs in. Why should I as a business have to take the responsibility of a buyers remorse return when they don't want to pay return postage. It would be nice if ebay give buyers the responsibility to manage their own returns. Buyer opens a return saying ordered wrong size. Seller clicks accepts return buyer pays postage. If something wrong with the item, seller clicks accept the return and pays for postage. If the buyer is not happy with the outcome then they can appeal to ebay once the item has been sent back and ebay can refund the buyer the cost of return postage. If top rated really means something, give the sellers with top rated status the opportunity to fully manage their own returns.

Rob • 12th August 2019 •

You see Alan, or rather you don't, this is what confirms it is you that has the problem. You think we should stop complaining and it will all go away. You think we should put up and shut up, just like ebay would like everybody to do because that makes the problems go away without them having to do a thing. Can I think of a better way of monitoring the site? Absolutely. Just hire a couple of staff to look over the listings. Even if you only pick one sector you will easily find countless duplicate listings, Chinese sellers with UK addresses and impressing on people that they are in the UK, such as using Royal Mail logos or the Union flag. How about LISTENING to sellers and actually reading the complaints properly when a seller tells them they git an item back damaged or an empty box instead of sending the insulting templates trying to teach long established sellers "how to use ebay" while completely ignoring the content of the message you have sent them, not once but time and again. Its not rocket science to add a dozen more scenarios where they could easily help people. Their system can monitor things like claims opened, negative feedbacks and so on so why don't they take advantage of that and actually start looking at rogue buyers' accounts instead of waiting until another two dozen sellers have been ripped off? This is exactly what I mean when I say your head is buried in the sand. You don't get it at all, your solution is to tell people to stop complaining about very serious problems that are on the increase. It's exactly this sort of attitude that is driving the problem. The police don't investigate what they call petty crime any more so those committing it do it more and more because they know there's no comeback. It's exactly the same with ebay. Derisory token gestures that will change little and are too little too late - as I said, it's more of a marketing exercise than a solution to a problem, that anybody with half a brain cell can easily see through. Sellers are not seeing anything from any special point of view, we're simply relating the facts. That's why your arguments don't stand up. This isn't about us moaning about rules or the way the site is run, this is pointing out genuine and severe problems that have existed for along time and will only continue to get worse thanks to the current mentality. You seem to be obsessed about me and my business, my problems, my metrics. This isn't about me at all, this is about eBay and the pathetic garbage excuse for an "improvement" they come up with like this, which as has been stated several times forces sellers into a returns policy which is going to cost them even more money, will breed even more scammers who realise that ebay will refund them themselves rather than "lose a customer". What they really need to do is take a leaf of the book of the CEO of a large hotel chain - sorry, I forget which one - who, following a report from an obnoxious customer who was clearly trying to get the hotel manager to lose his job, had the customer thrown out and told the press that he would rather lose one bad customer than one fine member of staff. THAT is the attitude we need from ebay, not to keep feeding the growing problem of scammers and pretending it doesn't exist, or isn't so bad, and people like yourself who happily jog along with their head in the sand policies just because you're doing OK do not understand that if things do not change then the platform will continue to go downhill. I don't need your smart, condescending attitude. I don't need your "advice". I don't need you to like me or advise me, I'm doing perfectly well thank you, but I do recognise the problems and can see how far downhill the site has gone, Managed Returns turned out EXACTLY how I knew it would and said so upfront; more returns, more damaged or overused goods, more claims for postage and more losses to sellers. In fact given the number of people using Not As Described as an excuse for free return postage, it's actually worse than I originally predicted, and it doesn't help that you have a new generation of people who do not understand that this is fraud and think it's perfectly acceptable to do what they do. The only thing you can do to help is drop the attitude with those like me who do not find the current situation acceptable, and accept that these are proven facts, not our opinion. Pretending they don't exist and that you are right and everybody who dares to challenge that is wrong isn't helping anybody. It's not about me, you or anybody else, it's about dealing with the issues at hand and adopting a smug, condescending attitude and telling everybody they're mistaken, or refusing to accept these issues are present and real is only making you look foolish. Why? Because the difference between you and us is we do want it to become a safe and trusted place for buyers and sellers alike, and it's a long way from that at the moment. While you won't accept it., even Wenig admitted the site is suffering from a lack of trust but as I keep saying, burying your head in the sand and suggesting that everybody except you is wrong isn't going to solve anything. I'll be spending much more time on our website. Now that really is safe for our genuine customers while being considerably safer for us too. Admittedly getting the point across to customers that it is safe to buy from can be a challenge but it's something ebay are not capable of. We don't get scammers on our site much because they know they don't have a team of idiots in the background handing the seller's money back to them. Meanwhile, unlike on ebay sales continue to rise at no further cost to us. I would suggest anybody who is serious about selling do the same and learn about marketing and SEO. Less fees, FAR less hassle, you can deal with customers over the phone (as opposed to having to hide your contact details), which offers a better impression to potential buyers and you have the personal touch and people not worrying if they're on a platform full of scammers. I was selling long before ebay came along. I wouldn't be surprised if I'm still selling long after they're gone. There's a lesson in there somewhere.

Mark Hetherington • 12th August 2019 •

This should be for all sellers not just TRS - some lost TRS because of the stupid returns system and the defects it generated. I've had a return open yesterday for example for a bra that the customer says is 1" too small for her - did she open it under "Does not fit" - nope that would cost them money... gets opened under "doesn't work / defective" as there is no way the customer could be a different size than she ordered... Had another leave negative on a brand name fleece jacket (sold below 50% of RRP) "Thinner than expected. Not vey warm" - Item specifics state "Thin" & "Lightweight" along with the description saying the same... Would ebay remove the feedback? No - its the customers opinion of the jacket and cant be removed... At least with AMZ that would be a "product review" and removed... shame ebay isnt copying them on the Feedback side...

Stephen • 10th August 2019 •

Exactly Stephen, but they're not interested. This is why I don't understand these pre-ebay people who say they're in favour of sellers. What, by rolling out a protection program that you might not qualify for? You can easily lose TRS through no fault of your own. EVERYTHING we sell goes same working day if purchased before 2 pm. and next working day over that, yet we still get idiots marking us down for late delivery. Not only are ebay classing this as "late dispatch" but they're penalising us for something that is completely out of our control. Apparently Royal Mail's record for delivering goods on time is around 94% - so 6% late - yet ebay only allow you 3% late, over which you lose TRS. So can any of your pro-ebay people explain to me how penalising us for something that's totally out of our control while expecting us to maintain a rate that is higher than the carriers themselves can maintain can possibly be considered as looking after your sellers?

Mark Hetherington • 10th August 2019 •

I haven't been on this thread for 5 days. are you STILL complaining Mark? you seem to be very bitter. is there anything I can help with? I find it wonderfully ironic that all these complaints are being written on a thread announcing MORE protection for sellers. Where on earth are you getting the figure that 6 percent of Royal Mail items arrive late? People who moan always like to skew the figures in their favour.. Or have you been witching Kevin Costner in "The Postman"? Post apocalyptic world aside - the Royal Mail are obliged to release these figures. they are called Universal Service Obligation and I can assure you they are no where near 6 percent.

Alan Paterson • 11th August 2019 •

@ Alan, Sorry, I didn't realise we were being timed. As I said to Charles, you're completely incapable of helping anybody with eBay's problems because they're in-grained, deep rooted problems that only eBay themselves could deal with. But sadly, just like you, they keep their heads buried in the sand and are completely incapable of even acknowledging they exist. That I can understand to a point, because admitting to their customers that their business model is badly flawed and increasing ineffective could leave them open to a class action (surely you know the oldest piece of advice in business is "never admit liability for anything"?) But for you there is no such excuse. You simply fail to, or refuse to, accept that there are serious issues and the only "help" I've seen you try to offer is to take the piss out of people. The reality is ebay are offering SOME extra protection in certain circumstances to SOME sellers meeting a certain requirement. You clearly can't spot a marketing exercise when you see one. As for the Universal Service Obligation, they're the laid-down targets, not the figures that RM actually meet. The Planet Earth reality is very different to your Utopian one. For example, they admitted in a Daily Mail article in 2017 that the target for one day delivery for 1st Class mail is 93%. They failed to meet that target. In fact every report I've ever seen says the same thing - targets not met. They are also the ONLY company that have asked for the service targets to be lifted at periods like Bank Holidays, Christmas, Black Friday and other busy periods because they know they can't meet them. Which translates to not only can they not meet their targets during normal operating conditions, the failed targets don't even include busy periods which, if they did, would obviously make those figures even worse. Now don't get me wrong, I think overall Royal Mail provide a decent service in part, depending which services you use, but the point is that there delivery metrics are worse than the allowance given you by ebay. See, you can't help with anything because you're blissfully unaware of anything that matters. You simply seem to find all this a source of entertainment for you and without any real value so until you are capable of accepting and understanding that there are a great many people who have serious issues with the way ebay operate you're incapable of helping anybody. The fact that people are complaining when they have announced something that's supposed to help, if you're naïve enough to believe it, tells you everything you need to know about what genuine sellers with genuine grievances really think of ebay. Businesses that do things right don't attract such opinions from people who use them so wise up, and you just might be in a position to offer some valuable information to those who are looking for it. Until then treat those people and their opinions with respect, and cut out the childish skits to those who happen to have a different view to that of your own.

Mark Hetherington • 12th August 2019 •

@ Mark. I have decided I like you Mark. At least you complain with a certain amount of logic (although fairy short sighed and fundamental) and eloquence. You are able to articulate your beliefs without being too offensive. If I were to do a peer to peer metric about how well a seller complains you would have a significant differential when compared to your peers.

alan paterson • 12th August 2019 •

@ Mark - putting your pre-judging aside if you need any help let me know. You sound like a decent person. Maybe you have just bumped your head.

alan paterson • 14th August 2019 •

I recently had a INR case go in my favour, the item a small parcel was scanned by RM as being delivered. The buyer claimed it had not been. eBay ruled in my favour. Two weeks later the item was returned with "Not known at this address". Something odd there. I am just waiting on another INR case, RM scanned the item as being delivered. The buyer has a history of negative feedback against sellers for non delivery. He also has a history of items not being delivered as a seller. Will I win or will I won't?

tyler • 11th August 2019 •

@ Tyler, if you have supplied the tracking number and uploaded it within the estimated dispatch time to the order and it is showing as delivered you will most definitely win. I would bet my time traveling socks on it!

Alan Paterson • 11th August 2019 •

A Royal Mail click and drop delivery scan beats INR claims on ebay and INR/unauthorised use on paypal, whereas Amazon doesn't accept it and refunds the buyer. You should therefore win again with this latest INR case. Your "not known at this address" returned parcel probably has a simple explanation. It was most likely delivered to an incorrect address, either due to postie error, sorting office error, buyer error (eg. an old address). So that INR buyer was actually right, even though ebay ruled in your favour. I've had INRs where I've asked the Royal Mail account team to check the GPS co-ordinates from the delivery scan, only to find it performed miles from the address. No doubt postie scanning it and popping it through somebody else's letterbox. Sometimes they get returned, as it seems happened in your case, though not often.

Gav • 12th August 2019 •

I responded to the INR and they responded to that but eBay are showing "Please respond by Aug. 18." before they will deal with it.

tyler • 12th August 2019 •

Is this only available to the top seller? I think everyone needs protection they must review the decision if it is not for everyone.

Arooba Sheikh • 11th August 2019 •

those that engage in longwinded rants about ebay seem not to understand that ebay is a for profits business not a government service accountable to the public

jim • 13th August 2019 •

As Jim said... Besides, they are not listening, maybe direct your rants at them direct.

tyler • 13th August 2019 •

Duh! ALL businesses are in it for profit. Those criticizing "long winded rants" without considering the content are completely missing the point that businesses can not ride roughshod over it's customers and expect to get away with it without at least some form of criticism or reprisal. If you were paying customers of any other business you would expect considerably better service than we get from ebay, that's the point. We're paying customers and we're entitled to our opinion, and much of what Mark says is absolutely correct. He has raised some very valid points and unlike Alan has offered solutions at times. Those opposing it are always more content to slam the author of the post than consider the issues being raised. I can only assume that's because they don't have any answers. Alan is a prime example, does a lots of blustering and telling people he only wants to help but he hasn't got an answer for any of the issues raised. He's not as smart as he likes to think he is. It's a common tactic used by people who don't have the answer to anything, to try and twist it around to make it look like it's the one asking the questions who are foolish. It doesn't work and it doesn't solve the problems being discussed.

1stmobile • 13th August 2019 •

@ tyler What, you think any of those people complaining haven't already contacted ebay? We tell them about it every time they allow another scammer through the (invisible) net. My business partner even wrote a long letter to the UK managing director last year, and included comments from over 30 other sellers who are members of a private business forum we use (see it's not just us) and we didn't even get the courtesy of a reply. That's how much ebay value their customers and in my opinion it's time more and more of the general public knew what we are up against. If ebay gave a damn they would have done something years ago instead of leaving sellers to fend for themselves. They interfere in business operations when it suits them but not when sellers have a genuine grievance. Shut up and put up doesn't work, it only means those behind the problems do even less about it and the problems just get worse. It's because of eBay's apathy towards these issues that it's as bad as it is now, but people need to wise up. Sellers like us don't use up valuable time posting complaints for no reason. As Mark Hetherington said, this isn't about us, it's about them so maybe instead of targeting us, the likes of Alan should be directing his criticisms at them, not at those who are trying to highlight the problems that exist.

1stmobile • 13th August 2019 •

@1stmobile. Everytime you and others rant on here about eBay it is the same story, it hasn't changed much in the last year or so. I happen to agree with you that both eBay & Amazon have unfair practices and very poor customer service, as well as websites that do not function as they should. So you put your point to them, they ignored you and so you feel that you need to keep ranting on here about it, to what purpose? I really do wonder why you still sell on there. You must make good money from them. So what's your problem? Of course it would be better if you did not have the problems but it's the usual "Risk v Reward" scenario, you just have to accept it or move on. You can't seem to do either. I am currently selling 2x what I used to on eBay, for some unkown reason and get very few problems. I sell 3/4x more on Amazon, again with very few problems We all have problems with eBay, some have more than others, you probably turnover far more than I do and make more profit = more problems. You also sell in a high risk fraud category, which means your risk is far greater than for what I sell, explaining why I get few problems compared to you. As Jim said, "Will using eBay make me money?" If the answer is yes, then just put up with it as there seems very little you can do about it. On the other hand, you could get all your fellow "unhappy" sellers to boycott them. But you won't as that would be "cutting off your nose to spite your face" as they say.

tyler • 13th August 2019 •

the only question we need answering is will using ebay make us money if the answer to that is yes that is the only answer we require

jim • 13th August 2019 •

No, the only question YOU need answering is will using ebay make money. Some of us have issues that ebay should be addressing, but by continuing to ignore the issues that are costing us money it is only going to get worse. It's only when it all goes tits up that people like you start complaining about it, but it's too late then. If you don't have an issue with any of this I'm not sure why you're even here, since it seems you have less of a reason for posting than we do.

1stmobile • 13th August 2019 •

@ 1stmobile No I would not have a problem if eBay went tits up at all, I still have Amazon to sell on and also my own website which I sell on, as well as other unrelated businesses that I run.

tyler • 13th August 2019 •

The reply was to jim's comment, not yours but to make sure you have at least one more outlet is the only sound advice anybody can give about eBay. We stopped listing items over £200 once Managed Returns cut in and it's been the best move we ever made. The thing is that affects everybody. Less choice for buyers means they're more likely to go elsewhere which means even those sellers doing well could be doing better. NO similar scammer-related problems with the website - but then Shopify pick up the scammers in many cases before they even get to you. You can even check the buyer's location where he was when he placed the order, to see if it is close to the buyer's physical address. Simple solutions like this that ebay could easily impliment, and this is just one issue of many. Ebay is fine for getting you started but could be so much more and I just wish people on here and other forums could appreciate that. They had a great head start and should be miles ahead of anybody else right now, instead of being a site beset with problems, a poor reputation and buyers and sellers alike leaving as fast as they join.

1stmobile • 13th August 2019 •

@ 1stmobile I was quite aware that your reply was to Jim but you also said "when it all goes tits up that people like you start complaining about it", I put myself in that category and the answer is no, I would not be complaining about it. Of course eBay could be better and people on here do appreciate that, but constant complaining on here does not make it better or achieve anything, so what is the point in keep moaning about it? It is important to have other outlets, I have had a website from when I first set up my business, it surprises me that so many sellers do not, especially with some of the problems caused by eBay with their changes in rules etc. With a click of a button I can update 500+ listings, images are all kept on my website. Of course you can do this with other third party applications, but even they have been known to change their rules and prices at short notice. As for Freedom Of Speech, your not achieving anything because your telling it to the wrong people, whilst you say sellers are leaving, you are not, you just continue moaning about it. If you really wanted to do something about it you would rally 50+ big sellers to boycott eBay for a month and announce it to eBay and the press. That would (may) get their attention. You are obviously very reliant on eBay for your business.

tyler • 13th August 2019 •

@ 1st mobile. with respect, not all businesses are in it for profit. Some businesses do ebay for the enjoyment and for something to do. When ik started ebay it was my "hobby". Many I know are happy to "break even" (what hobby pays for itself?). If only sellers like you would not try come along and take the "fun" out of it. your statement about profit puts your views in a new perspective.

Alan Paterson • 13th August 2019 •

@ tyler, "@ 1stmobile I was quite aware that your reply was to Jim but you also said “when it all goes tits up that people like you start complaining about it”, I put myself in that category and the answer is no, I would not be complaining about it." No you might not, but as I said people LIKE you would start complaining about it. OR are you all trying to tell me that no matter how bad things got you would all sit there and keep stumm about it? Like I keep saying it's the "put up and shut up" attitude that allows things to get worse, when nobody challenges it and demands improvement. This isn't about me and I don't have a problem as such anymore than you do in keep responding telling us we need to stop complaining about it. I'll say what needs to be said for as long as it needs to be said and if enough people say it then things just might improve if a more pro-active CEO comes along one day and actually starts listening. But until then as long as I'm paying the money I'll keep on saying what I damn well like about ebay. You're making the classic mistake of thinking it's taking over my life, that I'm going to go away now and have a good cry or rant at the mirror, or throw furniture about, or whatever. I'm not. I'm done with the issue once I end my post, until the next time I choose to respond. Instead of advising people what they should be doing or complaining that they're complaining you should ask yourself what you're doing here and why you feel that it's necessary to just accept it. Maybe you don't have the stomach or bottle for a fight and you'll just sit back and watch when the ship goes down, I don't know, but by doing nothing you get precisely nowhere. If you don't like these posts stop reading them.

1stmobile • 14th August 2019 •

freedom of speech also applies to criticism of long ranting pointless diatribes

jim • 14th August 2019 •

So it's OK to for you to complain about people who are complaining, but not so much for people to complain about anything in the first place? Because that's how is sounds to me. As I said if people don't like it they don't have to read it. Simple. But the other alternative, nobody complain about anything at all and just put up with it, well we might as well all move to North Korea. This may come as a shock to you but we're equally as bored of listening to people trying to tell us that's everything's OK/accepting/going well (or however you want to describe it) in the ebay garden - if not more so, given that it isn't actually true.

1stmobile • 14th August 2019 •

@ 1stmobile Calm down, your getting confused... I don't have a problem with eBay so nothing for me to fight about and more than happy if the eBay ship went down. At least you could stop moaning. YOU do have a problem and you are NOT fighting about it, maybe it is YOU that does not have the stomach for a fight? You are complaining on here, that is NOT doing something about it, your not even moaning / complaining to the right people. As I said before: "If you really wanted to do something about it you would rally 50+ big sellers to boycott eBay for a month and announce it to eBay and the press. That would (may) get their attention." STOP moaning and TAKE ACTION, people like you that moan all the time and do nothing just become a bore. There is freedom of speech and there is freedom to bore people.

tyler • 14th August 2019 •

@ tyler So as I said it's perfectly acceptable for you to complain about me complaining,yet you seem to think I'm the one who needs to calm down? You couldn't make it up. (I'm perfectly calm by the way). The sad thing is it's doing nothing that gets you nowhere, and noting these things on a public forum - especially one specific to ebay - makes a lot of sense, contrary to your belief. You also seem to keep assuming that we have never contacted ebay over many of the issues, which is a million miles from the truth. However, given the state of their appalling customer service and trying to actually get a positive reply from them, let alone get anything done, is usually a fruitless task anyway. You have no idea what action we have taken about various issues in the past, but the difference between me and you is you jump to conclusions and I discuss the facts. Bottom line is as I said if you're not happy about it don't read it. You keep responding which would suggest you don't have a problem with my posts, yet you seem to keep complaining about me posting them, which means you do have a problem. And you think I'M confused? Weird. I'm finished anyway, I learned decades ago that trying to debate something with somebody who are so focused on their own agenda that they are unable to see any other angle is a completely pointless exercise and I think you've been entertained for long enough. I'll finish with pointing out what somebody else mentioned earlier - you don't know how depressing it is reading endless posts from people who don't think there's anything wrong with one of the most badly run organisations on the internet. You say leave if you don't like it? We're having a meeting on Friday to discuss exactly that. That's how bad ebay is, that after nearly 2 decades not only has it not improved but it's just got continually worse every year. Every decision they make is simply papering over the cracks. It's just a shame that some people are incapable of seeing that, but it's not my problem.

1stmobile • 14th August 2019 •

@ Tyler (he doesn't sound calm to me) @1stmobile can I recommend eBay item number: 223600562194

alan paterson • 14th August 2019 •

@ 1stmobile Calm down, your getting confused… I know, I said that before and you claim to be "perfectly calm", but you said nothing about you being confused. I really do not see how you can be calm, I would not be if 94% or my many high value items were returned in a poor condition I am not really complaining about your complaining, just letting you know what a bore you have become, you contribute nothing of value and achieve nothing, so I am actually trying to understand your purpose. You do seem confused by many of things you say, which is why I got that you were confused, you say things that are wrong. I had accepted that you have done something about it, bar moaning on here, including contacting eBay, I also accepted that it got you nowhere, as your moaning on here has not nor will not. You see, I totally accept you are achieving nothing but becoming a bore... I twice suggested something you could do, but you ignore that. Again, you are confused, I do agree with you that eBay is a badly run organisation and there are many things wrong with their website as well as their customer service, but it does not actually effect me that much as I have very few problems. Take a look at the recent arbitrage story that was written and you will see my thoughts on that. Although it was probably more aimed at how badly it was written. eBya claim to be doing something yet all they do is make more money from the people they supposedly hate? Not ban them,a s they should. I actually had to laugh when I saw hat you were thinking of leaving eBay, all the more for your competition, I doubt eBay will miss you, so once again, you will achieve nothing. Seems to be a recurring theme... Now if I can try and be serious for a minute, with all this ranting / moaning you have been doing, I suddenly thought I am not actually sure what your problem is, let me go back and check. 1. The article was a load of crap. | Poor Chris Dawson, he does try his best. 2. Items that are returned in poor condition are not in resellable condition | I can see your problem if you are selling them as new. Question: Do you not video record all incoming returns being opened as proof? I know a Tech company that also videos their packing area to show what is being despatched. 3. Free shipping is now often unsustainable. | Put your prices up to cover the cost. I have items I do not sell on eBay as I have to charge more than the RRP. That will be changing soon. 4. Returns have increased since Managed Returns was introduced. | That will happen, although we get very few,. As I said, you sell in a high risk category it is to be expected. One thing that I have said before and many people ignore is that eBay do have their hands tied by the many & various distant selling regulations. If they do not give refunds then the scammer can just go back to their credit card company. And you are also right that scammers are more likely to target eBay rather than seek out independent sites that may be a little more security aware. You did make a good point earlier about your shopify shop and how they tackle fraudulent attempts, unfortunately eBay are unlikely to act quickly on such a suggestion. And lastly as a suggestion, I would seriously consider taking up Alan's offer of help, if only to prove to him how badly flawed eBay is, what have you got to lose? I would actually be sorry to hear that you had left eBay, as I do not think it is right, but I stick with what I said before, you complaining and moaning on here is not the way to fight back and will achieve nothing, despite what you seem to think.

tyler • 14th August 2019 •

It's called Freedom of Speech. The more publicity these things get, the less likely the situation will be likely to carry on unabated and as I've tried to explain that is to everybody's benefit, so don't knock it. Have you any idea what the world would be like if people like us sat back, did nothing and stuck our heads up our arses like some of you seem to think I the "correct" thing to do? It would be a lot worse than it is now I can assure you. It's a lot worse than it was a few decades ago because people cared more about unjust issues and were not prepared to accept it just because it didn't necessarily affect them. If you don't like it don't read it, but never take away anybody's right to complain or desire to improve things, because you just might not like what the alternative brings you.

1stmobile • 13th August 2019 •

exactly we have better things to do than piss into the wind ranting about evil bay

jim • 13th August 2019 •

@ jim, my thoughts exactly. you wonder how some of the people above have the time to come on here with their persistent and excessive rants. Off course that doesn't apply to me. :) One day I hope that I will come on here and find the majority of sellers working WITH ebay rather than against. It is a dream I have. .............

Alan Paterson • 13th August 2019 •

@ Alan. And why does this not apply to you? Why don’t buyers complain about Amazon the way they do about Ebay?

Ross • 13th August 2019 •

@ Ross, I think you know the answer to your second question - fear of consequences. But I'm not going to write anything else on that ...... I too am scared. as for your first question - I think you also. know the answer to: I am a genius and therefore I can multi task and still get better results than almost everyone else (maybe with the exception of Boris Johnsone - I am still astonished he pulled PM off - respect) Right now I am dictating this message to Siri while simultaneously responding to my ebay messages, feeding my cat and processing the various solutions to Global Warming (I have 7 that will work). But we are off topic........ The topic is that ebay are making greater efforts to protect us as sellers ............. gives me a warm fuzzy feeling inside although that may be the re-heated curry I shouldn't have had for breakfast.

alan paterson • 13th August 2019 •

@ Alan, your humour still needs work. Can you leave global warming aside and help me with a far less dramatic problem? You have my number?

Ross kennedy • 13th August 2019 •

My money would be in the curry.

1stmobile • 14th August 2019 •

Or on the curry even...

1stmobile • 14th August 2019 •

@1stmobile I can confirm it was the curry. I ordered the ingrediants form Amazon fresh .................

alan paterson • 14th August 2019 •

@ Ross, I am an acquired taste. Not been very well. I will give u a call tomorrow morning at wake up time. You better not have lost ur TRS again.

alan paterson • 13th August 2019 •